What do you expect from your training?

[Chris H]

Just like the subject says.  On any level, what do you expect to get out of your dive training?  If you pay for the class do you think you should get the certification?  Some call this buying a c-card.  What about minimum requirements vs. what is expected above and beyond from the instructor?

[Swimjim]

I believe you should attain your c-card only if you can meet the requirements of the class.  If you can't demonstrate proficency you haven't earned it.  After all the "card" is meaningless, a new skill set is.

Jim

[Harpoon Larry]

A free 6 month subscription to Dive Training  ;D

[drifter1430]

I believe if you pay for the certification, you should get the certification. Now with that said, I also agree with Swimjim that a certification card should not be given until “all” qualifications of that card are met. If a (lets call them “slower”) student has trouble with the skills but has the persistence to keep attending classes and training until he masters them I don’t feel he should have to keep paying for class after class after class.

[matt t.]

Worried about your up-coming classes??? ;D Being in the same position as you are, after carefully choosing my instructor I expect to get his applicable knowledge, experience, skill, and recommendations. What I do with that
is up to me. I understand that I will have to "perform" to his standards and know that I may or may not pass on the first try. That said, I think most (if not all) instructors will go out of their way to help a "serious" student that is making an honest effort (this may or may not cost more depending on the situation). Are you buying the card? NO. Earning the card is up to the student.

[divbum]

I would expect to be heckeled online....
As an educator and someone always seeking new knowledge, I like this topic.  There are points here I already agree and disagree with.  If this thread dies remind me and I'll post when I return from TN in 2 weeks.  If it is still alive I'll jump in then.  I just won't have time to respond and follow up right now, sorry.  But I look forward to reading the discussion.
Safe Diving,
Greg

[DiveCaptDean]

If a (lets call them “slower”) student has trouble with the skills but has the persistence to keep attending classes and training until he masters them I don’t feel he should have to keep paying for class after class after class. /////

while i do think that an instructor has an obligation to assist a student
in any way possible to complete the necessary skills for the class,,,,,,,,
if i were following the same logic on my boat, would that mean that if i take a group of divers out to a wreck, and they decide to not do the second dive that i should have to take them out the following day for free so they can get in their second dive??

if one requires an over abundance of my time.....they will need to pay for it...any instructor should feel comfotable with the same....this is business

[Chris H]

I think instructor discretion is fine for the amount of additional payment.   For DIR-F the instructors have the option of allowing you to audit the class if they feel you have put forth the effort to pass.  There is no point wasting the instructor's time if you aren't going to put forth the effort or feel you are entitled to pass.

As far as the "qualifications of the card" go, this opens up a whole different can of worms.   I think that you should be able to perform to the satifaction of the instructor and be able to do the skills with the equipment you are normally diving in the environment they will be diving in.

[Vtach]

Obviously I expect to get that same as stated already.  The main idea is that you take classes to improve and extend your knowledge and skills.  First and foremost, I expect instructors and students to be up front and honest about what their expectations of the class are.  This way a student knows what to expect and can make a decision on whether or not to continue based on whatever reason is most important to them.  Student and instructor should be in agreement on both the financial and academic expectations.  Secondly, I expect that instructors spend a relatively equal amount of time on each student.  There are times where each student may need a bit of individual attention but babysitting one student is not fair to the others.  I think it is up to the instructor on just how they handle "needy" students and this should be agreed upon prior to the class. 

I think the biggest point to make here is that anytime you give someone money for a object or a service you are entering into a basic contract and you should find out exactly what you are getting especially if its a service.  If you don't like what you will get, look around.  If you are looking to "buy" a C-card, I'm sure there are instructors out there that will "sell" you one.  If you really want to be safe, be qualified and have a certification mean something, you will find a reputable instructor who expects competence before issuing that card.  If you don't prove to be competent, the student/instructor agreement should already detail what happens next. 

I guess I am more comfortable knowing that I have proved myself competent than I am with getting a piece of laminated paper.  I think that there is an abundance of divers out there who are more concerned with showing off a patch on the shoulder rather than actually being competent.  If that is what they want to do, more power to them.  But unfortunately, that person may someday be in the water right next to you.  Think about it..... :

[Omicron]

I would expect an education.  I'm attending a class, not buying a card...so I hate to think that I am just buying a card.  If I don't pass the class, I don't pass - I'd rather find out during the class that I can't do what I'm trying to, instead of while I'm doing it underwater!

If I fail, I'd like to option to come back and try again after practicing.