Rebreather instead of OC tech ?

[matt t.]

Not much happening here for quite a while, so lets get a discussion started. Taking a cue from Kevins post in another thread, do any of the CCR divers here on the board wish they'd have gone right to a rebreather instead of going through OC tech classes? Remember that there are no wrong answers, only personal opinions, so be honest.

[systematic.entropy]

Funny you should ask. This is a conversation I recently had with a good buddy of mine just after our CCR course. And, of course the view is going to be different for everyone.

The benefit of going through OC training is reallying getting a good foundation in technical diving without the added task loading of CCR during the process. Now that may just be my perspective from going through "hard overhead" training (cave). However, even going through the physiology studies of OC diving give you better working knowledge of mixed gases and dive planning. Would you really "know" an OC deco schedule if you hadn't done it for years? And instead, just went ahead with a rig that made things work? Sooner or later every CCR diver is going have to be an OC diver, and more than likely it'll be during decompression. Good thread though. 

[Chris H]

I think OC tech makes a great foundation for the RB.  On the KISS Classic I'm able to use the same BP/wing that I have been using with my OC set up and have actually carried an AL80 on all of my dives thus far not because it was required (the 80 is overkill, bailout is definitely required), but why not?  I usually have an 80 clipped in the same location for an OC dive, and down the road there will only be more bailout tanks needed.

Perhaps the only change I would have made would have been in the amount of OC gear I collected through the years.  The deco/stage 80's and 40's and their associated regulators can and will be used with the RB as bailout, offboard and storage tanks.  The many sets of steel doubles I have can also be used for gas storage, but the steel tanks require much more effort to keep in diving order than the AL tanks, and the steels are considerably more expensive.  Frankly, I hate double 130s.  They are OK in the water, which admittedly is where they are supposed to be used, but my bent wedding ring makes a small statement to the damage they can do while handling them.

I'm really looking forward to being able to do a weeks worth of diving with a few sets of 19s and two or three bail out tanks and then relaxing in a chair while the OC guys spend the next several hours refilling their tanks for the next day's dive.

[Vtach]

Rebreather technology is changing so it may be likely in the future that there are more divers who start out diving with a rebreather but as of right now I think it is best that rebreather divers have a solid OC diving base with preference to entry level technical diving (Adv Ntx/Deco).  Regardless of your OC training level, as soon as you start diving a CCR, I think you have entered the realm of technical diving.  The units themselves are not particularly complicated in their "general" design of operation but the importance in understanding concepts of technical diving (Charles, Henry and Daltons laws) should not be understated.  It is also important for the rebreather diver to be comfortable with OC equipment in order to properly manage a bailout.

I think the biggest drawback to technical divers moving to a rebreather is the "unlearning" of OC habits that are deeply ingrained.  They make you a good OC diver but they sure do help to screw things up on CCR.  It would probably take less time for a new diver to pick up on the finer points of CCR diving in relation to buoyancy control and loop management because they do not have these habits.

I won't be surprised if rebreathers become more mainstream in the future to the point of divers making a choice on which path to take OC or CCR.  I don't think that is feasible right now but as technology advances I think it is quite likely.

[deep thought]

Excellent question, and good replies!  And I will try to answer it as concise as I can, but I will state that this is not a cut and dry subject by any means.  To tackle this question I will use my own personal experience as a student, the experience I gained by training rebreather divers for ten years now, and a few examples of my students, some of whom have now become rebreather instructors and rebreather authors.

When I got interested in rebreathers it was the introduction of the Drager Atlantis, which we dismiss today, but in the day it was “WOW A REBREATHER”!  And although it was only an SCR (Semi Closed Rebreather), it was a technical piece of equipment that required training that was foreign to open circuit divers.   At this stage of diving, I had 25 years of diving experience from diver to technical Trimix instructor.  It wasn’t boredom or lack of activities to engage in, it was new and exciting…

My first SCR students were primarily tech divers who were lured by the efficiency of gas use, the myth of “light weight” , and of course the gizmo factor.  They struggled with buoyancy at first since it was so different from O.C. , and I would giggle silently when they “poofed” into the silty bottom by using their lungs to provide O.C. lift.  Upon completion of the 4 requisite dives (and instructor satisfaction) they were in my mind as competent as an “Open Water” diver, or “Trimix” diver after certification, meaning they had a learners permit.  My goal has always been to provide activities to support my students post course education, and many of the students joined me for years of mentoring to really learn how to manipulate and get the best advantage of a rebreather.

When I trained at student level on a CCR ( fully Closed Circuit Rebreather) it was because I wanted more than the SCR was capable of doing.  I went in arrogant as I was when I took my first cave diver course…20+ years diving, thousands of dives, instructor levels, bla,bla,bla…then proceeded to crawl out of the cave with my tail between my legs!  The SCR training was helpful as it developed a few of the key principles of rebreathers, but I was now going from flying a Piper Cub to an F16 jet – Wow lots of stuff going on.  I didn’t pop to the surface when ascending, but the course was challenging and my instructor was hard core and serious.   I felt more confident than I did with my cave course, but returning home I was on an island in the middle of no CCR experience or divers to learn from.  I proceeded very slowly, and with a heap of paranoia as I knew of the recent fatalities and serious consequences of operating a CCR.

I set about on a campaign to travel North America and attend every CCR specific gathering, attend any advanced CCR training I could myself, traveled to Europe meeting and diving with some of the best CCR instructors, one of the best I knew (Penny) became a fatality while teaching CCR.  I took every course I could from Tom Mount at IANTD, from Florida to the Caymans, Bahamas, Belize…gaining more experience to pass on to my students when I was ready to teach.  Today I look back at the early gathering of CCR divers at events in Vancouver BC,  Plymouth UK, and Caymans and realize there are now more instructors sprinkled around the Midwest, so new divers do not need to travel as much to gain insight and experience as I did.

My first CCR students were primarily converts from the SCR, or my core group of Trimix O.C. students with “basic” experience going from 20 years to as little as 5 years.  I trained my divers like I was trained and pushed them when needed.  I was surprised at how many times they had serious buoyancy issues, trouble conducting the basics of operation, emergency bail outs, or deploying a lift bag.  Once one of my students who was a dive buddies of 10+ years fouled up so badly in the reel and SMB that he dragged both of us to the surface!  Things can go from ok to yikes in no time on a CCR, and  although I pushed hard for quality training I had empathy for my students as I recalled my training.  Not wanting them to be left alone without anyone to use as example, or reaffirm their skills and practice, I set about to provide years of activities from Great Lakes wreck dives to world wide CCR specific travel.  

Today I have students around the world, and some have become notable CCR instructors themselves.  But regardless of my travels and working with divers and instructors, I understand that all of these people have taken the task of CCR’s to heart and got over the hurdle or learning curve and are now quite proficient.  A particular case that struck me was a student (I traveled to in the states) who was a War Veteran, a brilliant academic,  a Surgeon M.D. , athlete, bon vivant…and he struggled to complete one of the very basic skills on one of the most simplistic, user friendly CCR’s on the market.  This got me to thinking; why do we teach all CCR divers like they were going to dive a Mk 5 CisLunar???  If you do your research you will discover that the training agencies have not changed the training from a Cis to a KISS Sport…even though the developer of the KISS was not a tech diver and he only imagined a diver who had “any” malfunction to twist the DSV (mouthpiece) and bail out to open circuit and ascend – not try to make a failing Cis take you out from a 400 ft. deep dive into a cave…and when I presented a question to the BOD of a tech training agency: “hey why do we do this…and why don’t we have a CCR course for divers who simply wish to look at pretty fish, if they experience a problem – bail out”?  I still have burn marks on may bum for even considering the bastardization of standards!!! Oh, the next year they announced at DEMA a recreational CCR diver course, “oh and Ron sorry for the thrashing we gave you”.  Funny thing as I did not propose this, I was asking to consider reviewing what we do and ask ourselves is this relevant to the current market and CCR’s???

So about 5 years ago I had proposed that the Midwest would mushroom with CCR divers, seeing all of the benefits of not hauling multiple sets of doubles, expense of helium, George Jetson sex appeal, etc…. and the East and West coast proceeded to do so, while the Midwest sat on its hands??  One of the major CCR vendors who I have had a tough relationship with (I considered their sales tactics sleazy, yet they had one of the most marketable units – while they considered me a threat as I was certified on over 6 different units) yet they asked me to represent their CCR in the Midwest because it was lagging behind all other areas???  My efforts included inviting all of the dive centers in the Midwest to my dive center to a CCR Forum on how to dive, teach, market, sell CCR’s to their customers.  I attended trade shows in Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, Michigan on CCR.  I provided CCR demos all over the Midwest, even certifying as many instructors as I could on CCR’s – some tech instructors felt threatened by this technology, some embraced it.   While I understood the huge financial commitment, time and effort to not only train as a student, but to gain the knowledge and experience to teach CCR’s, I could not understand the bad mouthing?  Then I realized some of the issues are simple paranoia – assume that you are an instructor that has invested a bunch of money, resources and time to teach O.C. Trimix and some upstart is teaching CCR Diver to Trimix level, well unless you invest in the basic diver level training yourself, go all the way to instructor level at Trimix…you cannot offer this level of training – hummm… I’ve seen the denial (no, not the river in Africa) but true head in the sand ostrich type of refusal.  Today an instructor cannot ignore the potential for CCR’s and hence the popularity at some recent venues… As an IT for CCR’s, I am technically working myself out of a job…but the goal is to promote CCR’s and growth for this technology, and it’s fun!

See next post too much fluff - to read the concise answer

Deep Thought

[deep thought]

Ok, I promised the concise answer

So to concisely answer the question is to throw out all the experiences I’ve seen (fluff in the middle) skip the previous post and read these last paragraphs. My experience shows me having taught divers from very little experience that simply wish to look at pretty fishes, to quite competent DIR (no zealot jokes, credit where credit due) trained divers, and Instructors – they all have challenges.  If you train a CCR diver respective to the standards, you have approximately 6 requisite dives and the student is prepared to now learn how to dive in the real world.  They are no more or less qualified than an equivalent (Advanced Nitrox/ Deco Procedures) tech certified diver.  How they gain the experience to go on and dive Cocos to photograph hammerhead sharks, or to dive the Pringle is the same path of either learn the “school of Hard Knocks”, socialize with other competent CCR divers, or hang out with your favorite CCR instructor and gain from their hard knocks…

The instructor can adapt the training to fit the type of diving the student sees themselves doing.  It is technically a violation of standards to “over teach”, or “under teach” but you can challenge your students respective to their background and future needs.  If a student comes to me with years of “DIR” tech habits, I will do my best to challenge them and break the O.C. habits that are counter-productive and sometimes dangerous, while keeping the good skills.  If I have a newer diver wishes to dive the Bradley next year…well the basic class only provides so much, they need time, mentoring and more training to fit the need.  I don’t need to break O.C. bad habits, but the work is to develop safe new CCR habits.

Today I encourage divers to go straight for CCR if they are interested in Tech, why learn how to operate a slide rule when a pocket calculator is handy, a set of deco tables when a Shearwater computer is available (Ooops! Stepped in another debate there..never mind), why get together in dive clubs to talk when you can be an “cyber tiger” on a web chat board… but seriously new technology is here that does some amazing stuff.  Yes it is nice to have a student who is experienced and you can never have too much experience (if you keep the ego police on guard).  The point is Go Diving, in-fact dive a CCR!

Good Diving

Ron