View Point- The Dive Buddy issue

[xlmba]

VIEW POINT     
        The best divers to me are the ones that are keeping it to themselves.  The divers who calmly put thier gear on and dive.  I tend to shy away from the talkers.  Those are the ones that think they are doing everything correct and anyone else is wrong.    And also quick to critisize others.  Besides the 10% of diving accidents from heart failure.  Divers with more than AOW cert have been the most likely to have that final STUPID bad accident.  Go figure. 
       I do enjoy seeing new divers experiancing the sport.  But I am not responsible for thier actions.  Thats for the instructors who lovingly cert'd. them..  Diving is a definate look out for yourself sport. 
       My view is that the Buddy System is a false sense of security for the new divers.  Neither new diver is efficient enough to help the other in a bad situation.  Unless if the one diver is experianced.  But then if the experianced diver has a problem then the new diver can't handle that situation.  And as of an end resault you now have 2 bad accidents.
        Dive charters force divers into dive buddies that they may not want or know.  This may infringe apon a divers rights.  Also the court system has in the past considered this as you being legally responsible for your dive buddy.  And besides the terror of losing a dive buddy.  I don't think years in court/expenses of trying to fight involuntary man slaughter charges would be fun either.  Thats a lot of weight to put on yourself for diving with someone you didn't want to dive with.  And remember there isn't no correct answer.  But the diver should have certain rights on issues that would affect the rest of thier life.
        My best dives are with my true and favorite dive buddies.  Sharing the experiance is part of it.   
                                          Lots of bubbles to ya !  Mike B.                                             
                                                                                                                   
 

[LKunze]

Wow, I think that's stretching it a bit Mike.  I've never been on a charter where a dive charter crew has "forced" someone to dive with another diver they do not want to dive with.  If we are talking local diving in the midwest I think most divers go to dives with others they already know.  In other cases they may dive with someone new.  You'll never know for certain what kind of dive buddy someone might be if you don't give them a chance.  That's how divers find new buddies to dive with.

[Vtach]

Mike, your viewpoint is interesting. :  Where do you get your numbers regarding heart failure and diving?  I would also like to see your source for numbers regarding your point on certifications beyond AOW.  So an AOW certification is safer in regards to any type of dive?
I guess I disagree with your viewpoint regarding criticism.  As long as it is constructive I welcome it openly.  If it can make my diving safer and more enjoyable I'm open to listening.

I don't think the buddy system is a false sense of security for new divers.  Not following the buddy system is the false sense.  It works if used.  Therein lies the problem.  An experienced diver should never put their new diver buddy in a spot where they are beyond their ability to handle a problem (a good buddy wouldn't do that).  There should be no reason a new diver should be unable to help an experienced diver and also no reason that an experienced divers shouldn't have the knowledge or equipment to manage whatever situation occurs on a dive that is appropriate for both divers.  The problems occur when an "experienced" diver is overconfident and think that they are the shizzle.  Overconfidence leads to complacency and complacency is what kills.

I also disagree with the charter boat thing.  If you get on a charter boat without a buddy you are either planning a solo dive or rolling the dice with the other solo diver....  There is no forcing by the Captain.  If you don't want to dive with someone you don't know, sit on the boat and get to know the Captain.  They probably know more about competent divers than most divers.

[xlmba]

  I want to read some real opinions and thoughts on the dive buddy issue.  PADI seems to feel that solo diving is a safe practice with thier SDI course.  So lets read your opinion and views without criticising other divers.  I am hoping for a lot of different opinions.  And no one is wrong. 

[Vtach]

Mike, maybe I am missing something but I thought I was pretty clear on my opinion of the buddy system unless my opinion doesn't count ;D.  The buddy system works when used properly.  I don't think that I'm being critical of any individual either.  If you are talking about my comments in another thread, address them in that thread.  I welcome the discussion and would appreciate details to help clarify some of the questions that I and others have.

With all due respect, you brought out some specific statistical and empirical information in this thread you started, that really should have some form of documentation or proof supporting it.  Since I am a diver with certifications beyond the recreational level, I think it appropriate that you share the knowledge you appear to have regarding technical diving.

I would like to discuss solo diving but the thread origin was your viewpoint and I still have some unanswered questions on your viewpoint hanging out there.

[matt t.]

The buddy system when used "correctly" is the ONLY way to go. GOOD buddies need to be close enough to be helpful in a bad situation, pay enough attention to hand and/or light signals to know what's going on throughout the dive, and be aware of their buddies and their own position in the water column. Good gear maintenance and attitude is also very important. HIS gas is YOUR gas. I dive with a group of 4-5 divers. We're all pretty much the same as far as dive habits go. It is very rare that I don't dive with a buddy (maybe a few quarry dives a year to try out a new piece of gear or something). If I was to be paired up with an "insta-buddy" on a boat somewhere, I may decline to dive depending on the circumstances. I would also understand if someone were to decline to dive with me. I dive with a certain mind set and a simple, but specific rig. Recently we had a discussion on deco diving with other divers that used computers (our group does NOT use them). The other guys seemed to be more open minded about it than me. At this point I would probably dive with a computer diver, depending on who it is, and after checking tables against his computer and determining a specific plan. YMMV .

[drifter1430]

It seems to me that if everyone followed the rule of only diving with someone that could instantly save your life if you had a problem, new divers would never have anyone to dive with. From what I'm reading, most of us on this site seem to be advanced beyond recreational diving.  A lot of that training involves self sufficiency along with how to cope with various emergencies on your own. The training also covers a lot of scenarios covering how to manage when your buddy has a problem. Granted I’ve also gone through Divemaster training, but I would think that with all the advanced training along with your personal diving experience any one of us should be comfortable (depending on the dive) diving with newer divers or divers with less experience then our own. Granted I don’t want to spend every dive with a newbie nursing him to the handrail on the Prins Willem V, but if no one did, he would never get the experience, nor the confidence he would need to help a fellow diver in the future. Would I just jump in and dive the R.B. Johnson at 265 feet with just anybody? Definitely not! But not all of my diving is technical. I enjoy diving the shallower (recreational) wrecks too and I find no problem in taking a newer diver with me. MHO

[xlmba]

    Way to go !  Matt & Drifter.  Thats the kind of discussion that is interesting and productive.  Can we hear it from any other divers.  Mike B.

[dfreeman]

I believe in the buddy system both when diving and when swimming.  I grew up with it and have seen it work well in keeping people save.

I have also been on intentional and un-intentional solo dives.  With proper equipment, training and attitude I believe solo dives can be done safely.

I often buddy up with less experienced divers.  I try to help them out and hope that they have a good experience.  This may mean that I have to do a different dive than I may normally have so that I do not stretch their expereince level.  I hope tht this help brings up the next group of good divers.

Doug

[Vtach]

Hmm...so I guess if I disagree or question something, I get the "talk to the hand"....Mike must be my wife in disguise. ;D

I'll try real hard to be good next time....HONEST......