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Working in fast moving water - Dewit2it - 08-24-2008
(I'm a little unsure of where to post this, so move it if need be)
Have any of you dove in fast moving water?
I have been contacted about doing video for a spey fishing show, and would be having to dive in fast moving streams while shooting video of salmon and trout. I'm thinking that some heavy ropework will be involved just to keep position.
I'm figuring that I would need one rope across the river, and on that rope, having a split sheave, and another rope to adjust my position across the stream. Attached to the first sheave there would be a second, and the line through it would control my position up and downstream. It would be tied off on one end, and I would be in a ice dive harness on the other.
Tending may be a problem, as I don't know how well rope signals will work with the extra rigging.
Extra safety ropes across the river will probably be needed downstream, that I could hopefully catch if the main rigging broke.
Any ideas would be would be helpful!
At least I have time to prepare, as I probably won't be doing things like this for a year yet.
Re: Working in fast moving water - matt t. - 08-24-2008
Talking to a PSD or PSD instructor might be a good starting point. Sounds like a neat project.
Re: Working in fast moving water - Dewit2it - 08-24-2008
PSD?
One other thing I may need is rebreather training to keep from spooking fish as much. Hookah would be another option. Some of the programs will be out in the boonies of Alaska, so scuba air will be scarce. And I'll probably have to worry about bears as well. Don't want to be grabbed by a bear thinking I'm a salmon.
Re: Working in fast moving water - codecruncher - 08-24-2008
PSD = Police/Public Safety Diver I believe.
Re: Working in fast moving water - Vtach - 08-24-2008
If you have no formal experience with Rope Rescue or Swiftwater Rescue techniques, I would highly suggest getting formal training, it is worth every penny. Its not what you know, but what you don't know.... But if you want to roll the dice with sitting at the top of Darwin's podium, pick up the following books, some ropes from Fleet Farm and have at it. Sounds like fun. Let us know how it goes, and yes rebreathers are the shizzle.
Re: Working in fast moving water - Dewit2it - 08-26-2008
I'm not totally ignorant about ropes and rigging. I do work with theatrical rigging, both counterweight and hemp. And Fleet Farm rope would NOT be used! Everything would be done on 11-12mm climbing rope. And yes, there's a whole different set of knots that have to be used for that style rope. (a normal bowline will slip on climbing rope)
I jumped in the Crystal River by the Red Mill to get a little experience. Imagine trying to low crawl on the bottom, wedging yourself on any rock that can give support against the current, and trying to hold a 30lb camera steady. Add to that your wetsuit buoyancy trying to float you. Then all the fish take refuge behind you, taking advantage of the slack water you create. Then you have ~3-4' viz making rocks come at you with almost no time for evasive. Shooting the slack water behind you, and you get all the crap off the bottom that's being dug out beneath you by the current.
And that's medium/slow compared to what I'm hearing about. :-\ I'll definitly need a rigging system. Lots of sucker minnows up to 8", good sized crayfish, and even a few panfish that got washed over the dam. The eddies on either side of the main current aren't too bad. Saw a couple of nice panfish under/in some logs in a deeper area of slacker current. One little bluegill liked taking refuge behind my hand and even nibbled on it. Saw one crayfish in there that could have ran 9+ inches. Got to go back with a bucket and BIG slurp gun for that one! ;D
Re: Working in fast moving water - Vtach - 08-27-2008
After thinking about it for a bit, I had talked with someone about this a few years ago and I remember them talking about using some form of anchoring system which utilized 2 grapples, one to set and one to move. I don't recall if they were a sand anchor, fluke or hook style. That combined with a bunch of lead, enabled them to work on and along the bottom.
One thing to consider if trying to use a form of zipline is that the line will always be above you and due to the vector angle the current is probably going to end up pushing you toward the surface if you will be "head up" for filming.
Whatever system you use, make sure to have a quick release and get a good read on the river before diving...strainers suck. Good luck
Re: Working in fast moving water - dfreeman - 08-30-2008
I remember reading of a guy out west that does very swift river diving. I looked for the article but have not founf it. However, this should help.
Doug
Re: Working in fast moving water - Dewit2it - 08-31-2008
Good article!
In the Crystal River it was pretty much just snorkeling. It might be useful to build something similar to the creeper as a camera mount/anchor. That way you could use the creeper as an anchor, and use the rope tether as a safety.
I just put together some of the video of the test, and will get a copy over to Mountain Bay tuesday. It ain't the greatest footage, but it's still fun to watch the fish. ;D
Here's a couple of captures. Poor little gill! Loved taking shelter from the current behind me.
Re: Working in fast moving water - freediverND - 09-02-2008
here's some thoughts.. several of us around here frequent some pretty fast rivers.. mostly below dams. I have done some white water in montana.. but we do it all while freediving. There is a river I'm hoping to get to yet this year that has pretty poor vis and had a super fast current last time I was on the shore there. I'm considering doing it scuba, as it's easy to get winded while snorkeling/freediving in current and so bottom times can get pretty short. I'll not be lugging a 30lb camera around taking pictures.. but will be looking for lures.
If I do it scuba.. I'll not take a b.c... rivers that I'm in are shallow.. usually less than 10', and if you're doing trout or salmon streams/runs you might be in 3' or less of water most of the time, and the more streamlined you can be in the current the better. I'm not sure just how I'll deal with the tank yet.. but it will be a small capacity tank.. dealing with the tank is still in the "I'm thinking" stage. Lots of lead.. even while snorkeling, in shallow, fast water, you need a lot of lead to stay on the bottom, especially being so shallow. The current on the bottom can be very minimal compared to the current just above, so that is the place to aim for. I'll have everything setup so that I can get to the surface if I need to.. and to be able to release whatever I need to without losing it. Most rivers that I do have less current off to the sides than down the middle, or in the main channel, so that may be the case in this river too, so I should be able to work my way into the worst of the current. I also think that a quick scout of the river conditions while snorkeling might be in order before dealing with the tank and all.
When I did the white water in montana, I was surprised that the boulders weren't a problem.. I was prepared for crashes, but the fast current actually took me right over the rocks.. they were not an issue. And again, when I went to the bottom, I could actually hold my own pretty good against the current. Freediving fins were a big help, and grabbing onto anything that was grab-able was good.
I usually have my hands free so I'm able to use the substructure to hold me or to pull me against the currents when it gets tough. I know you won't have that option trying to run a camera. Maybe something so simple as a screw in anchor, a line, and there you go.