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TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - Chris H - 09-08-2003
Thought I would post a quick first impression follow-up on the courses Todd and I are doing with Gert (Deep Blue) even though we touched on them breifly before in the other post.
In the shortest possible description, the course is excellent! I highly recommend it.
We did the first two dives on Saturday in less than ideal visibility in Lake Michigan. I changed some things with my equipment and tried some different techniques for these dives that I had never tried before. This left me feeling most uncomfortable at first, but I eventually got used to the changes and I've already made some more to try on the next dive.
As Gert mentioned in one of his other posts, he teaches "A Kinder, gentler DIR" However that may change if they keep hosting the DIR-F course
I really like it. I told Todd on the way home from the class that it is one thing to tell me to change the way I do something, but if you can show me why it is better, and it actually makes a lot of sense, I'm going to be pretty receptive. I'm looking forward to practicing the skills we worked on and just plain becoming a safer, better, diver. I hope Gert keeps the video tape to himself because most of it was pretty ugly, but we'll all be fine before this thing is over.Now, do I get another E-130 to double my current one and use my AL 80 as a stage, or do I just stick with the 40? I guess time will tell. One minute to drop the stage and one minute to put it back. I need to work on that one...
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - FreediveWI - 09-08-2003
Sounds like you guys had a good time.
It's interesting how you liked the DIR stuff once you tired it. I must admit to being a huge stroke at one point in time, but changed my gear because I was looking for a better way. Every time I tried another one of the "DIR ideas" it just worked better than anything else I had done, or seen, before.
Most people who bash DIR have never dove it. They just look at it and decided it's not for them. Once you actually try it, and see the results on video
, you can become a convert very easily.I would double up the steel tanks and use your 80 as a stage. Sure 40's are nice and small, but an 80 let's you get a couple of nice deco dives out of a single tank.
When your swimming you really don't feel much of a difference. I've used up to three 80's, plus my doubles, at a time and have felt very comfortable. Another friend has dove with up to eight 80's, plus doubles, and could mangage without much of a problem- he did this while doing a "clean up" dive on a deep survey.
As long as they are standard aluminum tanks, and you keep them all stacked up under your left arm, they cause no extra drag.
Are you taking the DIR-F class this fall?
Jon
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - Chris H - 09-08-2003
Jon,
I'll be out of town for the fall DIR-F class, but Gert promised me he'd have the next one while I'm in town. I hope to take DIR-F this spring.
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - Vtach - 09-09-2003
I definitely agree with Chris. The class is great and I am learning much more than I expected. I have been reading quite a bit on gas mixing, decompression, etc and feel pretty comfortable with the "theory", physics, math and calculations prior to this class. Putting it all together is really a whole different scene in itself. I am a fierce believer is using other peoples experience and knowledge to learn rather than being bullheaded and try to muddle through things yourself meeting the same obstacles especially when your life could be at stake.
I still have not made up my mind on DIR. I really like the mentality of "everything for a reason" and fully believe in incorporation mind/body health. I still feel pretty clumsy with my gear conversion to DIR but I'm sure that it is just a matter of practice. I am a bit turned off still about the "stroke" thing though. Maybe it is because I do not have a full understanding of the subject. I know some very good divers who are not DIR and I have witnessed them handle problem situations in a very capable manner and trust them completely. I would never put a label on them because they are not DIR. Maybe I am getting the wrong impression about the DIR attitude but sometimes it seems a bit snobbish. I bring this up because maybe someone could elaborate a bit and clear the subject. I like everything else about DIR but this seems like a real downside to me. Reminds me a bit of the fraternity thing in college.
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - Deep Blue - 09-10-2003
Thanks for the kind words on the class. As I said in class, my goal is to turn out divers that I would trust to dive with my family members. I also want to make sure that my students have the skills to progress toward a trimix card if they so desire. There are so many other skills that are needed to safely dive mix, that your basic skills need to be really solid before entering class.
This class is one of my favorites to teach because I am able to see so much growth in all of the students from start to finish. Also, it is the class where the whole DIR philosophy really begins to shine. The more task loading that you introduce, the more critical simplified, streamlined gear and procedures become.
As far as the whole stroke thing, The most common definition is that a stroke is an unsafe diver. The other, more stringent is a diver that is not totally DIR. I prefer the first, since what many people call rule 1 "don't dive with strokes" is pretty unrealistic if you are only dive with DIR divers at all times, especially as an instructor.
That said, depending on the environment, there are times when I will NOT dive with divers that are not DIR in their equipment setup and philosophy. This is primairly when we are diving conditions that are outside the recreational limits. Among DIR divers, the term is thrown around pretty loosely, in fact, I have been accused of being a stroke for some small deviations from what some people consider DIR.
If you get called a stroke, you just need to decide two things, first do you want to dive DIR? If not, so what if you get called a stroke. Don't sweat it. The second thing is if you are trying to dive DIR, evaluate why someone used that term and decide for yourself if it is a valid label and what should you do to change your diving.
I also know divers that are safe, while not being 100% DIR, although many of them are moving in that direction. For myself, I do prefer diving with divers that use DIR as their approach to diving though. I can get in the water with another DIR diver and be confident that their equipment is squared away and their skills are solid. In addition, I know that their procedures will be the same as mine.
One caveat though, there are a lot of divers that say that they are DIR, but are not even close. I am not talking about simply equipment setup, but personal diving phylosophy, as there is much more to DIR than just equipment. The good news is that a predive conversation will usually separate the pretenders from the actual DIR divers.
I am sure that I have missed something, but I know that Jon will have a response and will cover whatever I have forgotten, so have at it guys!!!!
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - FreediveWI - 09-10-2003
I was going to stay out of this one.
Some people get really carried away with the "stroke" label and will call anyone who doesn't have all of their gear squared away 100%, exercise 3 hours a day, and only dive with a buddy, a stroke.
My defintion is a little more basic than that. Simply put, "an unsafe diver".
For me the number one thing is this, have they ever run out of air? Running out of air is such a simple, stupid, thing that I will never dive twice with someone who has run out of air on a dive with me.
I may have lost some friends in the past because I suddenly started declining every invivtation to dive off of their boat, but I will not get back into the water with them. I have even had them say "I didn't run out of air because you had extra air for me"! ???
I have also had people come up to share air with me because of regulator malfunctions. Thses people I would dive again with without a problem. Gear can fail and it's no one's fault, but running out of air because you don't know what your SAC rate is, if your a tec diver, or because you just don't watch your gauges is unacceptable.
THere are other things that I look for, like smoking, excessive drinking, lack of regular exercise for someone who want's to dive deep, hose stuffing, and getting bent on a semi-regular basis, but running out of air is the main one.
I will second Gert's other point about being able to show up on the dock and get paired with another DIR diver and have everything "click" on the dive after just meeting them.
It's so nice to have the exact same gasses, deco bottles, deco profiles, ingrained bail-out secenarios, and buddy awareness. There is no big discussion about what to do if a problem happens as both divers already know the drill and will respond in the SAME way. The deeper you go the more important this becomes.
DIR is a big topic that people like to bash around right now, but 10-12 years ago the same could be said about nitrox (the devil's gas
). I even quit working at one shop because they refused to let me mention the word on "their sales floor". Now everyone in town teaches it. Most of the gear that recreational divers wear today came from the tec-diving/ cave-diving circles. THey were ALL hottly debated when they first came out but are now considered standard. Things like B.C.'s, Pressure gauges, power inflators, dive computers, octopus regulators all went through this process. So, for people to get all worked up and argue over it is just part of the growth of the sport. 10-12 years from now many of these things will be standard and we'll laugh about them - just like when I went through my basic diver course and wasn't allowed to use a power inflator or octopus because we had to "know" what to do when these things failed on us.
Jon
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - dfreeman - 09-10-2003
What is "hose stuffing"? I can think of a lot of things it could mean, some are a bit twisted.
Doug
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - Chris H - 09-10-2003
Doug,
I think that hose stuffing is when you have a long hose, but it is bungeed, or stuffed in a spot and not easily stowed again by the diver or his buddy. Somebody jump in if I'm wrong.
Chris
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - Vtach - 09-11-2003
Thanks Gert and Jon for the replies. I am not trying to start a war and I appreciate the frank responses. I have a better understanding of what you both mean when talking about "strokes" and I like the way that you explained your reasons. I completely agree with the term "stroke" when it pertains to unsafe divers, or the typical "MSD syndrome" (Macho $hithead Diver-I have dove in places you wouldn't pee in since I was certified last month in Antarctica-syndrome). That is where I have no problem using the "stroke" label. I have seen enough divers slap themselves on the back because of where/what/when they have dove and I am pretty sick of the elitist attitude without involving DIR. I guess that no matter where you dive, you will eventually run into people who interpret things in the extreme sense regardless of what the topic is. I think that I will definitely sit on the softer side of DIR and glad that I generally will not be chastized for it. Thanks for the opinions and feed back!
Todd
Re:TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures - puddlejumper1 - 11-02-2003
I have absolutely no problem with the DIR concept for equipment configuration. What is a concern is that 1. DIR is an outgrowth of Hogarthian configuration but with a more strict do not change it interpretation. 2. This whole concept of stroke. Now as to individuals. Many DIR devotees have shown a lot of common sense in dealing with the dive don't dive issue of strokes.
Gee Todd I hope you will still dive with me since I am a stroke.