Excellent!!
This is what should be happening....A DIR conversation with out a bunch of chest thumping and cutting down of other people.
Yes, CJ I knew what I was starting...I know plenty about the basics of DIR and knew that they are not truly a training agency. I know about DIR and GUE and Halcyon and some of the gang. I mearly wanted people to start talking about it again...WITHOUT THE RIPPING!!!
Even if I decide to never convert to DIR, with the information that is on this forum, I may learn things that will benefit my diving, and anyone else may as well. I think this is the true desires behind forums such as these. For all of us to learn, ask questions, and get answers without someone shitting down our throats because we are not like them. So, follow Gerts lead.....push a kinder DIR...One that looks to help diver improve their skill, safety and enjoyment of diving as opposed to putting others down..STROKES... because they chose to not be DIR
Happy Diving to all...
Now lets start some productive topics in this forum so that people may ask questions and learn...
Let me rephrase that. I knew that they were not truly a certifying agency but a training agency
Sorry.. dont want to get beat up over a slip up
Here a some pretty decent articles on the Hogarthian gear setup and DIR in general, and for Jon, there's even a freediving article
most of this is covered in "the fundamentals of better diving",
but I thought that those who haven't read it might enjoy the links.
Just another two cents here. I worked for Bob and Dave C. down in Florida from Halcyon at a dive shop they have. There was GUE inst and all employees in the shop dived long hose. I was the "black sheep" Padi Inst. The amount of insults they throw at ALL other agencies is simply astounding. Claims that other certifying agencies should be put out of business and that when teaching or simply taking GUE divers out for some dives, there should not even be Padi divers on the boat since they can not dive well enough to even be called divers.
Ok, I must agree that DIR methods and GUE does make some pretty awesome divers that can go far beyond the capacities of regular Rec divers.
But, not everybody wants to dive deep, cave, trigas, etc. I learned how to dive from Milw Fire back in '65. I was addicted the first day! After all these years, my favorite dives are still, a shallow water reef dive. Maybe I dont have the urge to go extreme or show off perfection to the nines. But I do try and dive safe, help others dive safe in whatever config thay are in, promote ConEd, (I know, a Padi term)and most important, smile and have a good time.
I agree mostly with CaptDean, we are all divers, though we pick different roads at times.
Objective Numero uno; we all go home
2. we have a good time and maybe learn something each day
What is the Right Path? This Path keeps changing and always will change through Technology and Just Diving Evolution!
You say that Inst should be tought through Mixed Gas. Well When I started to Dive and took My Inst Course all thouse courses did not exsist, so your saying that People that have been diving Pre 1990's in your book Are not divers.
I guess it would be safe to say in about 10 years OC will be the Next thing people will be bashing and if your not on a rebreather you dont have a clue.
Its a vicious cycle. Back In the early 90's it was Nitrox if you got caught saying that word around DEMA you were asked to leave. Now people say I cant believe divers didnt use that back then.
K
The courses didn't exist then, but it certainly doesn't mean that they aren't an option now. A good diver is always learning. I don't necessarily think that every OWSI should be Trimix certified, but I like the idea of being taught skills like hovering, and horizontal trim right from the start. Keep students off of the bottom, and get them flat in the water. I can't remember the last time I needed to do a fin pivot while I was diving :
A propulsion technique other than the flutter kick would be nice too. Of course then the student's brand new split fins wouldn't work and they might get frustrated.
Paul, in an ideal world professors are the top of their field and the best teachers. I don't know when you finished college, but I had plenty of professors who were awfully good at writing papers and making us buy their books but couldn't find their ass with both hands, a map, and a GPS.
There is also the 'professor knows best' syndrome where they believe their knowledge defines the boundries of the whole of their field, and are entirely unwilling (or incapable) of dealing with a different POV (sound like the overly dogmatic few?).
I think most of the DIR philosophy is fantastic, but to expect every OWSI to be trimix certified seems a bit over the top.
I never said Trimix, I said mixed gas. And every instructor should at least be certified for nitrox themselves, if not deco procedures or something other than "Underwater Naturalist" Lol.
I'd actually feel funny teaching classes with only the "Go Pro" classes under my belt.
/all work and no play make Jack a dull boy
[/quote]
Fair Enough, asking an instructor to be nitrox certified and have a minimum # of real dives (not quarries @ 10' ) isn't too much to ask.
you are missing one point though that I tried to make earlier.
An incredibly skilled and experienced individual does NOT necessarily mean that they make a good teacher. All the knowledge in the world doesn't confer the ability to break down that knowledge into blocks needed to transfer that knowledge to others.
to use your examples:
music teacher:
a) this teacher MAY be better for those starting out on the recorder (OWD) as they practice and are probably fluent in breaking down those basics to the new student (probably not a trimix student, but they wouldn't be teaching that either, as most instructors aren't), whereas...
b) MAY be too far along in their career and have too many demands on their time to stop and teach the basic fingerings of the recorder to a new student (gear setup and mask clearing)
or as a flight instructor:
a) probably NOT someone I'd what to teach me, but we all have to start somewhere I guess.
b) again, sounds like this guy has lots of irons in the fire. Does he have time to tell me what that funny flap on the back part of the plane, you know the part... it sort of sticks up... like a tail, kinda, does. You are assuming that because they are skilled and have LEARNED a lot that they are automatically a good TEACHER.
I've had professors who were genius in their field, but couldn't explain the concepts to others. Or were just plain BAD teachers (ie, no patience, little ability to look back and remember what entering their field felt like, overly rigid adherance to THEIR theories with no room for discussion).
While the idea of a skilled, practicing, expert in the field who is also a great educator is one that we would all hope to have as an instructor, those people are NOT on every street corner, in ANY field.